Have you ever wondered about your own sanity? I have -- but in hindsight I was just being angsty. Perhaps over-imaginative, with a large dollop of depression thrown in. A snapshot into the mind of J. Loughner is given in Posting of a Troubled Mind, and now and then I can sort of understand where the guy is coming from. Does this mean I sense some sort of kinship with him? Absolutely not. There's a huge gap between occasionally hearing voices in the background noise, and being an anti-social nimrod. I know there's a huge gap in part because his postings remind me distantly of a few people we used to encounter in usenet, and I am nothing like them nor they me. And this goes way beyond the usual "I would never hurt anyone" disclaimer, which is really fairly pointless since no one hearing that will ever really know.
What's becoming clear is that his actions were not triggered by suggestions in right-wing hyperbole. The Giffords gathering might have been a nearly random choice for his final statement. I would be breathing a sigh of relief if I were his college math teacher, or any of the store managers who fired him, people he referred to in his online life. Neither Palin nor anyone else in the public eye carries responsibility. A lot of people are thinking about the balance between free speech and an unintended incitement, but it's my opinion that the balance isn't important. When a person who needs mental health treatment and isn't getting it finally goes off, it is his own troubled mind he is responding to far more than any political poster. Political discourse has always been robust in this country. It is in fact a lot less polite, a lot less safe, in many other countries. To encourage people to tone it down for the sake of civilization is reasonable, but not for the sake of safety. There is no safety from the mentally disturbed in a country that abandons them to themselves.
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I agree.
One reason I got down so heavily on a coupla peeps over in farcebookland was because I know from some experience how easy it is for someone to go off balance, and it doesn't take a politico blathering on the t00b to get them there.
In my situation, we were able to provide the support needed and work through the problems -- so far. God forgive the ones who have no such support.
They are not helped by people who scream about how it's all Palin's fault and how Rush has to be shut down when their energy could be going toward recognizing, and then supporting the disturbed.
@gekko: "God forgive the ones who have no such support."
That's assuming, of course, that even with the support some who lose their balance won't trip anyway.
I AM™ sorely tired of blame. A couple of decades ago, when I ran for State Rep, a good, God-fearing man sprayed spittle in my face and called me a baby killer. To the best of my knowledge, I have neither killed nor eaten any babies. Human ones, anyway.
The other day, we had a hopeless discussion in one FB thread and a standoff in some others. Actually they were all hopeless, but not in the zen sense. Hopeless because every argument started with someone blaming someone else and no matter how many facts wer presented, the blamers just didn't listen.
Sad.
I agree and disagree. Agree that Jared is a nutjob probably mostly influenced by voices from the rings of Saturn. Disagree that the current political climate in this country is merely "robust" -- it is ugly and hateful. And I do not blame this entirely on the right -- it was ugly and hateful during Bush's time. The difference is that the lefties yelling about how Bush was an drunken monkey were not buying up Glocks.
And let's say that nothing has an effect on the total nutjobs, k. Can't do anything about the loon coming out of nowhere. But what about the not-quite-nutjobs? The people hovering around the edges who ARE influenced by what these charismatic folks say? Don't tell me no one listens to Beck, Limbaugh, et al. People scoop up that shit and spread it on their toast every morning.
Free speech, good. Irresponsible speech, bad. Tragedies a way to further polarize sociopolitical debate or agenda, bad. As an opportunity to in general be a little bit more careful with how we speak to and treat each other, good, so good. That said, I'm no fan of Palin, but I am also old enough to remember the bizarre pinning of Manson's madness onto a freakin Beatles song. Nuff said. Crazy is crazy.
I agree with Paula that the rhetoric has gotten out of control, in the sense that it's very difficult to have any kind of real discourse anymore and that is bad bad bad for our country.
But asking everyone to adjust everything they say to the sensibilities of an unstable person who may or may not be listening strikes me as blaming the trench coats all over again. A trench coat doesn't make you do evil things and neither does Sarah Palin. Unless of course you are Sarah Palin.
We cannot try to clean our society of every possible trigger for every possible mentally ill person. It's the most foolish way of going about things I can imagine. Better to deal with the powder keg than the match. There are less of them, and they're easier to find. Even then you'll miss some, but I think we could be doing a better job of looking than we are now.
I used to wonder how the rising tide of hatred in Germany went unnoticed by its citizens but now I understand. It didn't. They embarrassed it in the name of robust discourse. They felt empowered by it. Bigger than life.
OTOH, if regular folks don't get that so many people tittering and winking about taking up arms doesn't effect crazies, I fear for us all the more. But our problem is not the crazy, isolated ones. Our problem is that supposedly sane public figures boast about using "second amendment solutions" and "gettin' 'er done". We all know what they mean. Shoot to kill. As my NRA instructor friend once told me, you NEVER (emphasis hers) point a gun at anyone you don't intend to kill. Violence as "The Solution" is in the air just like it was in Germany. Don't think so? God help us.
Welcome to the NRA's America and if you sell guns all the better. The NRA buys legislation that guarantees its members huge, ever increasing profits from gun sales. Conservative bastions like Arizona are model NRA communities. Everyone who wants one has a gun under their jacket or in their purse. Any crazy can walk in off the street and buy a gun as easily as buying a bottle of beer and then go out and shoot even a child in the back of the head with it. Gun stores sell truck loads of guns to felons, no questions asked. In Arizona it is even illegal to keep records of purchase. Perpetual war. It's the perfect loop. We're all being played.
To encourage people to tone it down for the sake of civilization is reasonable, but not for the sake of safety. There is no safety from the mentally disturbed in a country that abandons them to themselves.
The argument is a subtle one. Rather than point fingers at specific groups of people, in turn generating all this bullshit rhetoric, it's simply time to wonder if the society we are all a part of is perhaps a little too violent and aggressive. Maybe just a little. The media language we use in political discourse has escalated, and it is revealing.
Not the point, but it could also be time to wonder why we are abandoning the mentally disturbed to themselves. It is not what good caretakers of a civilization would do. But then that would bring up the specter of Socialized Medicine.
For the record, I am all for socialized medicine. There! I said it. I love America. Freedom of Speech man...... whoaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.......
Not that anyone else cares but while I'm all fired up to straighten out the record, I did mean to say "They embraced it in the name of robust discourse" the other day rather than "They embarrassed it in the name of robust discourse".
I fotget why I'm against socialized medicine. Maybe I'm not. I just don't remember. So long as the system doesn't deteriorate as it did in the USSR or appears to be doing in the UK.
So long as the system doesn't deteriorate
That's about how I feel. I liked the Public Option for that. From my seat in the nose bleed section it seemed to have the promise of keeping the notorious private sector in check and visa versa. I just like to be inflammatory but now after Obama's Arizona remarks I want to try to tone it down.... probably.
Same here, Public Option. Look at what's happening now: ins companies are raising their rates like mad and no one's stopping them. The right is blaming "Omamacare," but no one has any of that yet. It's like the whole thing was one giant joke ... on us. I hate to sound like a conspiracy theory nutball, but sheesh.
Obamacare, not Omama. Gawd.
@Don: When the socialized medicine helps you recover from this cold, you'll remember. It's because the system _will_ deteriorate. That's the first rule of systems.
That's the first rule of systems.
Good point. It's the curse of civilization.
I love America. Freedom of Speech man...... whoaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.......
Hippy.
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